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ron

If Oregon passed a zero-emission requirement on 50 percent of vehicles sold in Oregon, effective immediately, how would that relate to sprawl? Or stated differently, if alternatives exist that could still accommodate sprawl, does this not punch holes in the argument that cheap gas fuels sprawl?

ADM can feed is corn based calories until we are all 50 percent overweight and fall over from diabetes. There is enough domestic based oil and Canadian shale to keep the tractors and trains moving for eons.

Froogle on 50cc to find short term solutions. Think of Toshiba and their one-minute recharge battery for business opportunities and possibilities . . . including clean air.

And. by all means, get the City of Portland (and others) out of the business of issuing system development charge backed bonds to go on high priced spending sprees to both encourage growth and then to leave the bond payers trapped into a position of fomenting growth so as to cover bond payments. There biggest problem related to growth is financial absurdities. Strip any and all mortgage assistance in excess of 100K, or at least prohibit the property tax man from recognizing those federally backed loans as an indicator of real value. The bankers look to the sale price as OK collateral, regardless of the underlying frenzy of speculation and bubbles. The bankers will come knocking on our doors soon enough demanding payment, one way or another.

Kill urban renewal because it is fakery designed only to prop up prices in the interest of bankers and against the interest of the persons nominally named as beneficiaries.

andrew

Haven't seen if you've mentioned SB1037 yet here, but this is one state Senator (Charlie Ringo)'s attempt to clarify M37 by pretty much exempting local governments from paying compensation on retroactive claims. The problem is its solutions: waivers for all. It gets a hearing tomorrow in Salem, for those that are interested in this issue (also more at kazablog and www.friends.org)

Sid

Ron-
The problem is, as I pointed out in my post, the R&D on renewables isn't happenin'. Even if it does, renewables won't fully replace our current demand for fossil fuels.

If suburban sprawl doesn't play a role in our energy consumption, which happens to be the world's highest at 25%, then what does? Why do we have the highest per capita energy consumption of any nation?

Sid

Thanks Andrew.

I sent out an e-mail to friends after I read your post about SB 1037. Thanks for the heads up.

ron

The Federal Reserve System that stimulates the flow of dollars coupled with the federal incentives to consume are huge drivers.

The post-9/11 zero percent financing for huge gas hog SUVs was the damndest bit of inverse reasoning I have ever seen in my life. The gas price stuff is like Enron on steroids. Close a plant for repairs conveniently for extraction of more net revenue. It is straight out of an economics price theory model, except that the players can play with both supply and demand.

Do not forget the hype about the shortage of electricity that prompted huge overpriced forward contracts in California and some in Oregon, for which we are still paying. The perception of shortage is just a perception.

The Saudi's have offered to pay to build a new refinery, to accommodate demand, so as to rebut the absurdity of claims of shortages in supply.

Buckminster Fuller highlighted the need to focus on un-meterable energy long ago. Jimmy Carter created a solar power incentive program and money was appropriated but the subsequent president refused to spend it. Federal aid for alternative energy vehicles is seemingly only used to subsidize the development of patents by oil affiliated folks to then sit on for 20 years or more until whenever the time seems right, from their perspective.

Its' a big game. A genuine shortage does not result in glorious record profits, only market manipulation can do that.

Sprawl is a different game altogether and it has to do with treating homes as investments for which the federal reserve and federal banking laws are designed to accommodate and spur along and for which local governments thrive on for their own self interest. Everyone seems to be on the same page, so to speak, to do their part to stimulate growth for the sake of growth and they all look over their shoulder at the Jones' to check whether their pace is getting a little lax. The yard stick is so far removed from sustainability that it seems almost crazy to even contemplate the notion. The monetary system and federal fiscal policy are fundamentally at odds with sustainability.

You could read Ecotopia and sort of dream a little bit. But then the nature of things as they are will again take hold of your mind.

Sid

Ron-

We can argue this point back and forth and back and forth as we have been doing ever since I began posting about peak oil and sprawl.

I guess time will tell. I predict that in about 10 years there will be suburban flight due to high energy prices. Perhaps it won't be so bad in the Portland area because we've got a decent public transit system. But I predict the flight will be towards concentrated centers where there is easy access to public transit and shopping is within walking distance.

If this isn't the case, I owe you a beer. If it is then you owe me.

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